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  • #6286
    TracyTracy
    Participant

    Matthew Orgill and His Family

     

    Matthew Orgill 1828-1907 was the Orgill brother who went to Australia, but returned to Measham.  Matthew married Mary Orgill in Measham in October 1856, having returned from Victoria, Australia in May of that year.

    Although Matthew was the first Orgill brother to go to Australia, he was the last one I found, and that was somewhat by accident, while perusing “Orgill” and “Measham” in a newspaper archives search.  I chanced on Matthew’s obituary in the Nuneaton Observer, Friday 14 June 1907:

    LATE MATTHEW ORGILL PEACEFUL END TO A BLAMELESS LIFE.

    ‘Sunset and Evening Star And one clear call for me.”

    It is with very deep regret that we have to announce the death of Mr. Matthew Orgill, late of Measham, who passed peacefully away at his residence in Manor Court Road, Nuneaton, in the early hours of yesterday morning. Mr. Orgill, who was in his eightieth year, was a man with a striking history, and was a very fine specimen of our best English manhood. In early life be emigrated to South Africa—sailing in the “Hebrides” on 4th February. 1850—and was one of the first settlers at the Cape; afterwards he went on to Australia at the time of the Gold Rush, and ultimately came home to his native England and settled down in Measham, in Leicestershire, where he carried on a successful business for the long period of half-a-century.

    He was full of reminiscences of life in the Colonies in the early days, and an hour or two in his company was an education itself. On the occasion of the recall of Sir Harry Smith from the Governorship of Natal (for refusing to be a party to the slaying of the wives and children in connection with the Kaffir War), Mr. Orgill was appointed to superintend the arrangements for the farewell demonstration. It was one of his boasts that he made the first missionary cart used in South Africa, which is in use to this day—a monument to the character of his work; while it is an interesting fact to note that among Mr. Orgill’s papers there is the original ground-plan of the city of Durban before a single house was built.

    In Africa Mr. Orgill came in contact with the great missionary, David Livingstone, and between the two men there was a striking resemblance in character and a deep and lasting friendship. Mr. Orgill could give a most graphic description of the wreck of the “Birkenhead,” having been in the vicinity at the time when the ill-fated vessel went down. He played a most prominent part on the occasion of the famous wreck of the emigrant ship, “Minerva.” when, in conjunction with some half-a-dozen others, and at the eminent risk of their own lives, they rescued more than 100 of the unfortunate passengers. He was afterwards presented with an interesting relic as a memento of that thrilling experience, being a copper bolt from the vessel on which was inscribed the following words: “Relic of the ship Minerva, wrecked off Bluff Point, Port Natal. 8.A.. about 2 a.m.. Friday, July 5, 1850.”

    Mr. Orgill was followed to the Colonies by no fewer than six of his brothers, all of whom did well, and one of whom married a niece (brother’s daughter) of the late Mr. William Ewart Gladstone.

    On settling down in Measham his kindly and considerate disposition soon won for him a unique place in the hearts of all the people, by whom he was greatly beloved. He was a man of sterling worth and integrity. Upright and honourable in all his dealings, he led a Christian life that was a pattern to all with whom he came in contact, and of him it could truly he said that he wore the white flower of a blameless life.

    He was a member of the Baptist Church, and although beyond much active service since settling down in Nuneaton less than two years ago he leaves behind him a record in Christian service attained by few. In politics he was a Radical of the old school. A great reader, he studied all the questions of the day, and could back up every belief he held by sound and fearless argument. The South African – war was a great grief to him. He knew the Boers from personal experience, and although he suffered at the time of the war for his outspoken condemnation, he had the satisfaction of living to see the people of England fully recognising their awful blunder. To give anything like an adequate idea of Mr. Orgill’s history would take up a great amount of space, and besides much of it has been written and commented on before; suffice it to say that it was strenuous, interesting, and eventful, and yet all through his hands remained unspotted and his heart was pure.

    He is survived by three daughters, and was father-in-law to Mr. J. S. Massey. St Kilda. Manor Court Road, to whom deep and loving sympathy is extended in their sore bereavement by a wide circle of friends. The funeral is arranged to leave for Measham on Monday at twelve noon.

     

    “To give anything like an adequate idea of Mr. Orgill’s history would take up a great amount of space, and besides much of it has been written and commented on before…”

    I had another look in the newspaper archives and found a number of articles mentioning him, including an intriguing excerpt in an article about local history published in the Burton Observer and Chronicle 8 August 1963:

    on an upstairs window pane he scratched with his diamond ring “Matthew Orgill, 1st July, 1858”

    Matthew Orgill windowMatthew orgill window 2

     

    I asked on a Measham facebook group if anyone knew the location of the house mentioned in the article and someone kindly responded. This is the same building, seen from either side:

    Measham Wharf

     

    Coincidentally, I had already found this wonderful photograph of the same building, taken in 1910 ~ three years after Matthew’s death.

    Old Measham wharf

     

    But what to make of the inscription in the window?

    Matthew and Mary married in October 1856, and their first child (according to the records I’d found thus far) was a daughter Mary born in 1860.  I had a look for a Matthew Orgill birth registered in 1858, the date Matthew had etched on the window, and found a death for a Matthew Orgill in 1859.  Assuming I would find the birth of Matthew Orgill registered on the first of July 1958, to match the etching in the window, the corresponding birth was in July 1857!

    Matthew and Mary had four children. Matthew, Mary, Clara and Hannah.  Hannah Proudman Orgill married Joseph Stanton Massey.  The Orgill name continues with their son Stanley Orgill Massey 1900-1979, who was a doctor and surgeon.  Two of Stanley’s four sons were doctors, Paul Mackintosh Orgill Massey 1929-2009, and Michael Joseph Orgill Massey 1932-1989.

     

    Mary Orgill 1827-1894, Matthews wife, was an Orgill too.

    And this is where the Orgill branch of the tree gets complicated.

    Mary’s father was Henry Orgill born in 1805 and her mother was Hannah Proudman born in 1805.
    Henry Orgill’s father was Matthew Orgill born in 1769 and his mother was Frances Finch born in 1771.

    Mary’s husband Matthews parents are Matthew Orgill born in 1798 and Elizabeth Orgill born in 1803.

    Another Orgill Orgill marriage!

    Matthews parents,  Matthew and Elizabeth, have the same grandparents as each other, Matthew Orgill born in 1736 and Ann Proudman born in 1735.

    But Matthews grandparents are none other than Matthew Orgill born in 1769 and Frances Finch born in 1771 ~ the same grandparents as his wife Mary!

    #6284
    TracyTracy
    Participant

    To Australia

    Grettons

    Charles Herbert Gretton 1876-1954

    Charles Gretton, my great grandmothers youngest brother, arrived in Sydney Australia on 12 February 1912, having set sail on 5 January 1912 from London. His occupation on the passenger list was stockman, and he was traveling alone.  Later that year, in October, his wife and two sons sailed out to join him.

    Gretton 1912 passenger

     

    Charles was born in Swadlincote.  He married Mary Anne Illsley, a local girl from nearby Church Gresley, in 1898. Their first son, Leslie Charles Bloemfontein Gretton, was born in 1900 in Church Gresley, and their second son, George Herbert Gretton, was born in 1910 in Swadlincote.  In 1901 Charles was a colliery worker, and on the 1911 census, his occupation was a sanitary ware packer.

    Charles and Mary Anne had two more sons, both born in Footscray:  Frank Orgill Gretton in 1914, and Arthur Ernest Gretton in 1920.

    On the Australian 1914 electoral rolls, Charles and Mary Ann were living at 72 Moreland Street, Footscray, and in 1919 at 134 Cowper Street, Footscray, and Charles was a labourer.  In 1924, Charles was a sub foreman, living at 3, Ryan Street E, Footscray, Australia.  On a later electoral register, Charles was a foreman.  Footscray is a suburb of Melbourne, and developed into an industrial zone in the second half of the nineteenth century.

    Charles died in Victoria in 1954 at the age of 77. His wife Mary Ann died in 1958.

    Gretton obit 1954

     

    Charles and Mary Ann Gretton:

    Charles and Mary Ann Gretton

     

    Leslie Charles Bloemfontein Gretton 1900-1955

    Leslie was an electrician.   He married Ethel Christine Halliday, born in 1900 in Footscray, in 1927.  They had four children: Tom, Claire, Nancy and Frank. By 1943 they were living in Yallourn.  Yallourn, Victoria was a company town in Victoria, Australia built between the 1920s and 1950s to house employees of the State Electricity Commission of Victoria, who operated the nearby Yallourn Power Station complex. However, expansion of the adjacent open-cut brown coal mine led to the closure and removal of the town in the 1980s.

    On the 1954 electoral registers, daughter Claire Elizabeth Gretton, occupation teacher, was living at the same address as Leslie and Ethel.

    Leslie died in Yallourn in 1955, and Ethel nine years later in 1964, also in Yallourn.

     

    George Herbert Gretton 1910-1970

    George married Florence May Hall in 1934 in Victoria, Australia.  In 1942 George was listed on the electoral roll as a grocer, likewise in 1949. In 1963 his occupation was a process worker, and in 1968 in Flinders, a horticultural advisor.

    George died in Lang Lang, not far from Melbourne, in 1970.

     

    Frank Orgill Gretton 1914-

    Arthur Ernest Gretton 1920-

     

    Orgills

    John Orgill 1835-1911

    John Orgill was Charles Herbert Gretton’s uncle.  He emigrated to Australia in 1865, and married Elizabeth Mary Gladstone 1845-1926 in Victoria in 1870. Their first child was born in December that year, in Dandenong. They had seven children, and their three sons all have the middle name Gladstone.

    John Orgill was a councillor for the Shire of Dandenong in 1873, and between 1876 and 1879.

    John Orgill:

    John Orgill

     

    John Orgill obituary in the South Bourke and Mornington Journal, 21 December 1911:

    John Orgill obit

     

     

    John’s wife Elizabeth Orgill, a teacher and a “a public spirited lady” according to newspaper articles, opened a hydropathic hospital in Dandenong called Gladstone House.

    Elizabeth Gladstone Orgill:

    Elizabeth Gladstone Orgill

     

    On the Old Dandenong website:

    Gladstone House hydropathic hospital on the corner of Langhorne and Foster streets (153 Foster Street) Dandenong opened in 1896, working on the theory of water therapy, no medicine or operations. Her husband passed away in 1911 at 77, around similar time Dr Barclay Thompson obtained control of the practice. Mrs Orgill remaining on in some capacity.

    Elizabeth Mary Orgill (nee Gladstone) operated Gladstone House until at least 1911, along with another hydropathic hospital (Birthwood) on Cheltenham road. She was the daughter of William Gladstone (Nephew of William Ewart Gladstone, UK prime minister in 1874).

    Around 1912 Dr A. E. Taylor took over the location from Dr. Barclay Thompson. Mrs Orgill was still working here but no longer controlled the practice, having given it up to Barclay. Taylor served as medical officer for the Shire for before his death in 1939. After Taylor’s death Dr. T. C. Reeves bought his practice in 1939, later that year being appointed medical officer,

    Gladstone Road in Dandenong is named after her family, who owned and occupied a farming paddock in the area on former Police Paddock ground, the Police reserve having earlier been reduced back to Stud Road.

    Hydropathy (now known as Hydrotherapy) and also called water cure, is a part of medicine and alternative medicine, in particular of naturopathy, occupational therapy and physiotherapy, that involves the use of water for pain relief and treatment.

    Gladstone House, Dandenong:

    Gladstone House

     

     

    John’s brother Robert Orgill 1830-1915 also emigrated to Australia. I met (online) his great great grand daughter Lidya Orgill via the Old Dandenong facebook group.

    John’s other brother Thomas Orgill 1833-1908 also emigrated to the same part of Australia.

    Thomas Orgill:

    Thomas Orgill

     

    One of Thomas Orgills sons was George Albert Orgill 1880-1949:

    George Albert Orgill

     

    A letter was published in The South Bourke & Mornington Journal (Richmond, Victoria, Australia) on 17 Jun 1915, to Tom Orgill, Emerald Hill (South Melbourne) from hospital by his brother George Albert Orgill (4th Pioneers) describing landing of Covering Party prior to dawn invasion of Gallipoli:

    George Albert Orgill letter

     

    Another brother Henry Orgill 1837-1916 was born in Measham and died in Dandenong, Australia. Henry was a bricklayer living in Measham on the 1861 census. Also living with his widowed mother Elizabeth at that address was his sister Sarah and her husband Richard Gretton, the baker (my great great grandparents). In October of that year he sailed to Melbourne.  His occupation was bricklayer on his death records in 1916.

    Two of Henry’s sons, Arthur Garfield Orgill born 1888 and Ernest Alfred Orgill born 1880 were killed in action in 1917 and buried in Nord-Pas-de-Calais, France. Another son, Frederick Stanley Orgill, died in 1897 at the age of seven.

    A fifth brother, William Orgill 1842-   sailed from Liverpool to Melbourne in 1861, at 19 years of age. Four years later in 1865 he sailed from Victoria, Australia to New Zealand.

     

    I assumed I had found all of the Orgill brothers who went to Australia, and resumed research on the Orgills in Measham, in England. A search in the British Newspaper Archives for Orgills in Measham revealed yet another Orgill brother who had gone to Australia.

    Matthew Orgill 1828-1907 went to South Africa and to Australia, but returned to Measham.

    The Orgill brothers had two sisters. One was my great great great grandmother Sarah, and the other was Hannah.  Hannah married Francis Hart in Measham. One of her sons, John Orgill Hart 1862-1909, was born in Measham.  On the 1881 census he was a 19 year old carpenters apprentice.  Two years later in 1883 he was listed as a joiner on the passenger list of the ship Illawarra, bound for Australia.   His occupation at the time of his death in Dandenong in 1909 was contractor.

    An additional coincidental note about Dandenong: my step daughter Emily’s Australian partner is from Dandenong.

     

     

    Housleys

    Charles Housley 1823-1856

    Charles Housley emigrated to Australia in 1851, the same year that his brother George emigrated to USA.  Charles is mentioned in the Narrative on the Letters by Barbara Housley, and appears in the Housley Letters chapters.

     

    Rushbys

    George “Mike” Rushby 1933-

    Mike moved to Australia from South Africa. His story is a separate chapter.

    #6254
    TracyTracy
    Participant

    The Gladstone Connection

    My grandmother had said that we were distantly related to Gladstone the prime minister. Apparently Grandma’s mothers aunt had a neice that was related to him, or some combination of aunts and nieces on the Gretton side. I had not yet explored all the potential great grandmothers aunt’s nieces looking for this Gladstone connection, but I accidentally found a Gladstone on the tree on the Gretton side.

    I was wandering around randomly looking at the hints for other people that had my grandparents in their trees to see who they were and how they were connected, and noted a couple of photos of Orgills. Richard Gretton, grandma’s mother Florence Nightingale Gretton’s father,  married Sarah Orgill. Sarah’s brother John Orgill married Elizabeth Mary Gladstone. It was the photographs that caught my eye, but then I saw the Gladstone name, and that she was born in Liverpool. Her father was William Gladstone born 1809 in Liverpool, just like the prime minister. And his father was John Gladstone, just like the prime minister.

    But the William Gladstone in our family tree was a millwright, who emigrated to Australia with his wife and two children rather late in life at the age of 54, in 1863. He died three years later when he was thrown out of a cart in 1866. This was clearly not William Gladstone the prime minister.

    John Orgill emigrated to Australia in 1865, and married Elizabeth Mary Gladstone in Victoria in 1870. Their first child was born in December that year, in Dandenong. Their three sons all have the middle name Gladstone.

    John Orgill 1835-1911 (Florence Nightingale Gretton’s mothers brother)

    John OrgillElizabeth Mary Gladstone 1845-1926

    Elizabeth Mary Gladstone

     

    I did not think that the link to Gladstone the prime minister was true, until I found an article in the Australian newspapers while researching the family of John Orgill for the Australia chapter.

    In the Letters to the Editor in The Argus, a Melbourne newspaper, dated 8 November 1921:

    Gladstone

     

    THE GLADSTONE FAMILY.
    TO THE EDITOR OF THE ARGUS.
    Sir,—I notice to-day a reference to the
    death of Mr. Robert Gladstone, late of
    Wooltonvale. Liverpool, who, together
    with estate in England valued at £143,079,
    is reported to have left to his children
    (five sons and seven daughters) estate
    valued at £4,300 in Victoria. It may be
    of interest to some of your readers to
    know that this Robert Gladstone was a
    son of the Gladstone family to which
    the Right Hon. W. E. Gladstone, the
    famous Prime Minister, belonged, some
    members of which are now resident in Aus-
    tralia. Robert Gladstone’s father (W. E.
    Gladstone’s cousin), Stuart Gladstone, of
    Liverpool, owned at one time the estates
    of Noorat and Glenormiston, in Victoria,
    to which he sent Neil Black as manager.
    Mr. Black, who afterwards acquired the
    property, called one of his sons “Stuart
    Gladstone” after his employer. A nephew
    of Stuart Gladstone (and cousin of
    Robert Gladstone, of Wooltonvale), Robert
    Cottingham, by name “Bobbie” came out
    to Australia to farm at Noorat, but was
    killed in a horse accident when only 21,
    and was the first to be buried in the new
    cemetery at Noorat. A brother, of “Bob-
    bie,” “Fred” by name, was well known
    in the early eighties as an overland
    drover, taking stock for C. B. Fisher to
    the far north. Later on he married and
    settled in Melbourne, but left during the
    depressing time following the bursting of
    the boom, to return to Queensland, where,
    in all probability, he still resides. A sister
    of “Bobbie” and “Fred” still lives in the
    neighbourhood of Melbourne. Their
    father, Montgomery Gladstone, who was in
    the diplomatic service, and travelled about
    a great deal, was a brother of Stuart Glad-
    stone, the owner of Noorat, and a full
    cousin of William Ewart Gladstone, his
    father, Robert, being a brother of W. E.
    Gladstone’s father, Sir John, of Liverpool.
    The wife of Robert Gladstone, of Woolton-
    vale, Ella Gladstone by name, was also
    his second cousin, being the daughter of
    Robertson Gladstone, of Courthaize, near
    Liverpool, W. E. Gladstone’s older
    brother.
    A cousin of Sir John Gladstone
    (W. E. G.’s father), also called John, was
    a foundry owner in Castledouglas, and the
    inventor of the first suspension bridge, a
    model of which was made use of in the
    erection of the Menai Bridge connecting
    Anglesea with the mainland, and was after-
    wards presented to the Liverpool Stock
    Exchange by the inventor’s cousin, Sir
    John. One of the sons of this inventive
    engineer, William by name, left England
    in 1863 with his wife and son and daugh-
    ter, intending to settle in New Zealand,
    but owing to the unrest caused there by
    the Maori war, he came instead to Vic-
    toria, and bought land near Dandenong.
    Three years later he was killed in a horse
    accident, but his name is perpetuated in
    the name “Gladstone road” in Dandenong.
    His daughter afterwards married, and lived
    for many years in Gladstone House, Dande-
    nong, but is now widowed and settled in
    Gippsland. Her three sons and four daugh-
    ters are all married and perpetuating the
    Gladstone family in different parts of Aus-
    tralia. William’s son (also called Wil-
    liam), who came out with his father,
    mother, and sister in 1863 still lives in the
    Fix this textneighbourhood of Melbourne, with his son
    and grandson. An aunt of Sir John Glad-
    stone (W. E. G.’s father), Christina Glad-
    stone by name, married a Mr. Somerville,
    of Biggar. One of her great-grandchildren
    is Professor W. P. Paterson, of Edinburgh
    University, another is a professor in the
    West Australian University, and a third
    resides in Melbourne. Yours. &c.

    Melbourne, Nov.7, FAMILY TREE

     

    According to the Old Dandenong website:

    Elizabeth Mary Orgill (nee Gladstone) operated Gladstone House until at least 1911, along with another hydropathic hospital (Birthwood) on Cheltenham road. She was the daughter of William Gladstone (Nephew of William Ewart Gladstone, UK prime minister in 1874).”

    The story of the Orgill’s continues in the chapter on Australia.

    #6231
    TracyTracy
    Participant

    Gladstone Road

    My mother remembers her grandfather Samuel Warren’s house at 3 Gladstone Road, Stourbridge. She was born in 1933, so this would be late 1930s early 1940s.

    “Opening a big wooden gate in a high brick wall off the sidewalk I went down a passage with a very high hedge to the main house which was entered on this side through a sort of glassed-in lean-to then into the dark and damp scullery and then into a large room with a fireplace which was dining room and living room for most of the time. The house was Georgian and had wooden interior shutters at the windows. My Grandad sat by the fire probably most of the day. The fireplace may have had an oven built over or to the side of the fire which was common in those days and was used for cooking.
    That room led into a hall going three ways and the main front door was here. One hall went to the pantry which had stone slabs for keeping food cool, such a long way from the kitchen! Opposite the pantry was the door to the cellar. One hall led to two large rooms with big windows overlooking the garden. There was also a door at the end of this hallway which opened into the garden. The stairs went up opposite the front door with a box room at the top then along a landing to another hall going right and left with two bedrooms down each hall.
    The toilet got to from the scullery and lean-to was outside down another passage all overgrown near the pigsty. No outside lights!
    On Christmas day the families would all have the day here. I think the menfolk went over to the pub {Gate Hangs Well?} for a drink while the women cooked dinner. Chris would take all the children down the dark, damp cellar steps and tell us ghost stories scaring us all. A fire would be lit in one of the big main rooms {probably only used once a year} and we’d sit in there and dinner was served in the other big main room. When the house was originally built the servants would have used the other room and scullery.
    I have a recollection of going upstairs and into a bedroom off the right hand hall and someone was in bed, I thought an old lady but I was uncomfortable in there and never went in again. Seemed that person was there a long time. I did go upstairs with Betty to her room which was the opposite way down the hall and loved it. She was dating lots of soldiers during the war years. One in particular I remember was an American Army Officer that she was fond of but he was killed when he left England to fight in Germany.
    I wonder if the person in bed that nobody spoke about was an old housekeeper?
    My mother used to say there was a white lady who floated around in the garden. I think Kay died at Gladstone Road!”

    Samuel Warren, born in 1874 in Newhall, Derbyshire, was my grandmothers father.  This is the only photograph we’ve seen of him (seated on right with cap).  Kay, who died of TB in 1938, is holding the teddy bear. Samuel died in 1950, in Stourbridge, at the age of 76.

    Samuel Warren Kay Warren

    Left to right: back row: Leslie Warren. Hildred Williams / Griffiths (Nee Warren). Billy Warren. 2nd row: Gladys (Gary) Warren. Kay Warren (holding teddy bear). Samuel Warren (father). Hildred’s son Chris Williams (on knee). Lorna Warren. Joan Williams. Peggy Williams (Hildreds daughters). Jack Warren. Betty Warren.

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